Steve's Rules with legendary executive recruiter Steve Nelson from the McCormick Group

Welcome to Steve's Rules with legendary executive recruiter Steve Nelson from the McCormick Group-This episode...How and why to recruit high level government officials and lawyers

• Steve Nelson

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In this episode Steve Nelson walks the listener through the key considerations for both firms and candidates as they consider the intricacies of recruiting high level government officials from this or any presidential administration. For reasons Steve lays out in detail, now is the right time for firms looking to hire federal officials to jump into the mix. So to, for candidates, now is time to make the move if Andare thinking about making the jump. And for putative candidates, it is not as easy as picking up the phone and making a call to that managing partner you met at a conference. In fact, doing so may be to your detriment.

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McCormick Group

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M Coffey

Unknown:

Murray, welcome to Steve's rules, periodic podcast featuring Steve Nelson, executive principal at McCormick group in the law and government affairs practice. My name is Murray Coffey, and I am the principal of Adam Coffey, a law firm marketing and business development Boutique. For more information, please visit my website at M coffey.net Steve has been an executive recruiter for nearly three decades, and without naming names, he is ready to spill the tea on best practices and maybe a few not so best practices by firms and candidates that he has seen during his career, recruiting some of the most driven and successful professionals into highly profitable and growing firms. Steve is a former lawyer and journalist and is a fellow of the college of law practice management and a proud son of Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania. Full transparency here, Steve has helped my career immensely through the years and has become something of a career shaman to me and I know many others. Today, we're going to look at a specialized, nuanced and high stakes form of executive recruiting like the springtime cherry blossoms in Washington, DC, the recruiting season for administration officials looking to leave government and join private practice is short and specific. Steve and his colleagues at the McCormick group have placed dozens of government attorneys, including cabinet officials, agency heads and members of Congress, in law firms and other professional services jobs around the US and abroad. First, hello, Steve. And did I get all that? Right?

Steve:

Yes, Murray, thanks a lot, and it's great to be with with you here.

Unknown:

So Steve McCormick group has a lot of different practices, but this is one of the practices this, this, you know, recruiting for, for from, from government into law firms and other other professional services organizations. That is, is kind of a more, I would say it's more of a niche, more more than a niche, rather for, for the recruiting world, and it's especially relevant because of your location, of your your firm, which is, which is in the Greater Washington, DC metro area. So we should talk a little bit. Why don't we start out talking a little bit about kind of the whys and hows of hiring a partner level talent from a government we are in, you know, we're getting into, we're in the middle of that season right now. There's probably a lot of discussions going on. And so why, why would a firm consider doing this, and what benefit or challenge will bring to the firm? Right? So

Steve:

it is the season you're you're absolutely right. This is the third year of a presidential term, and most of the top officials, if they're going to move during the administration, they're going to move this year. They won't. They can't wait until next year, because at that point there'll be a lot of pressure for them to stay for for law firms, it's for many practices. It's really critically important that they have the talent from government in their firms, because the strategy of dealing with particular government agencies, the know how, the inside information about how things get done in government, and the kinds of arguments that make sense and the kinds of arguments that don't make sense, that's that's critical, and that does change from administration to administration and from year to year. So having the most up to date talent coming from some of the key federal agencies is critical.

Unknown:

So let me, let me tail back to something here. That was an interesting comment you made about bringing in somebody who understands the current administration. So when you have an administ, when you anticipate you're gonna have an administration that will have two terms that particular that particular recruiting decision is one that can be especially valuable for the for the firms, because they're they're going to get insights not only into the end of the this, this particular term, but into the next term. And that's oftentimes when you know a lot of stuff is

Steve:

happening, right? And let me just point out that even if there is a shift in administration, many of these individuals are in the independent agencies, Securities Exchange Commission, Federal Trade Commission and the like. And those policies don't shift as much because they they have been built to be more apolitical than, let's say, you know, the Treasury Department. Or some other agency. So the know how at the SEC, it doesn't change that much from administration to administration. Got

Unknown:

it. Got it. So when should a firm be focused on hiring top federal officials? What's the kind of a What's the tell that you are from that needs this? Right?

Steve:

I think, as I said earlier, now is the time. Now is the time to be focused on bringing in the top talent from from the agencies. Now there'll be certain people, whether they're political appointees or whether they're just top level career people that will wait to the end of administration. But if you're looking to recruit somebody out of an administration now is the really good time to bring those people in, because again, as I indicated earlier, you get to a point where it's really hard to disengage yourself from the political scene.

Unknown:

So let's touch a little bit on the ethical considerations for hiring somebody out of the federal government. I know that there are, there are a number of them. I expect that many firms have an understanding of some of it, but they probably don't understand the impact of all of it. So let's talk about that a little bit. Yeah.

Steve:

I mean, so generally, there is a one or a two year ban on appearing before an agency, if you're a high level official from any of the agencies, and that's and that is honored. I mean, this is not something to play around with. On the other hand, it does not prevent you from having, having advising your clients about how a particular agency might handle a particular situation, so there's still a lot of value that those officials can provide. One other ethical consideration I do want to mention is that really, really relates to the recruiting is that all the agencies have recusal rules about talking to prospective employers, and therefore a lawyer will have to recuse themselves once, once it becomes active with a particular firm, and that really goes to your strategy, if you're a government official, as to how you want to go about looking at opportunities

Unknown:

And and is, is engaging in a discussion with a recruiter? Does that trigger the recusal requirement, or is it, is it when you're actually look entertaining a possible, a possible offer, not even an offer?

Steve:

Yes. I mean talking to recruiter about potential opportunities does not indicate any kind of recusal situation. You're free to talk. You're free to talk about the firms. And you know, recruiters should obviously tell you about certain firms, and you know what they provide. So all that is is open. The rules, as as we understand them, is once a resume gets transferred to a firm, or there is some level of clear interest expressed by both the firm and the candidate, that triggers refusal. And that's important because if, if, if you're a government official saying you decide to do this by yourself. Which many people do? You have to be really careful about which firms you want to talk to, because once you start talking, there's a recusal issue. And if you're the kind of person who's going to be in demand from a number of firms, you want to limit those number of firms, the ones you're really interested in. Hard to do if you're not using somebody like us as a group,

Unknown:

that's, that's really, that's really interesting. So there's the executive recruiters kind of form a buffer, then between, between each for this, and it's not, there's no, there's nothing untoward about and it's just, it's just a way to do, a way to do business. So, so that people can entertain, you know, multiple multiple ideas, you know, at the same time. And I think it's always, you know, I at my background, as you know, is in marketing and business development at large law firms. And so I've had quite a bit of experience working with lawyers coming out of government, mostly federal government, but some state agencies as well. And I have to be honest, Steve The the the success of some of these, these, these folks, is variable. And so I wonder if you can talk a little bit as you see, you know, firms and candidates. You know, how do you know? You never can know for sure, but how do you weigh out kind of where the greater, what kind of an environment needs to be available to a to a candidate or then, you know, partner to help them become successful,

Steve:

right? So I really think there are, like two important criteria that a firm ought to be considering when they're looking at a lateral coming out of government. One is the exact role that that official plays in policy and decision making, and how critical is it to the business community? Because there could be people who are really terrific lawyers have a great pedigree, but maybe they're at an agency that's not, doesn't, not have a tremendous impact on on business. Example, would be, in many cases, not always, the State Department, great lawyers, but very few of them are going to have an impact on, on, on, on the state of business. The other, the other thing that I would say that's important is somebody coming out of government has to have the desire to succeed in the private sector, and the private law practice in particular, we're looking at those kinds of opportunities. And so somebody has got to understand that it's a business and that you as a lawyer, you're expected to either bring in the business directly, or at least be part of the team that brings in business. And if you're not, if that's not what drives you, if you're driven by public policy, and, you know, changing the world and making it a better place, you're probably not the right kind of person for a for a law firm, it's you've got to what have that hunger to do it. And sometimes what we run into are people who the first thing they say is, I really would like to go in house, you know, into a corporation, where I won't have to do all those things. And then if I that doesn't work, then I'll look at a law firm. To me, that's a tip that this is a person probably is going to have a difficult time making it at a private law firm. Yeah,

Unknown:

yeah. I think, I think that's a that's a great insight. Um, how long I know this? Is this? This? Again, is another one of these. You know, look in your crystal ball. Kind of questions, but, but how long will it take for government, government official, to really develop a practice? What's the I've you know, my view is it's longer than the firms think. But what do you think? What do you know? Yeah,

Steve:

I totally agree. I think firms, right now, firms have finally decided that, or figured out, that person's not going to develop it in the first year. I think they've now gotten to the point where they're thinking two years. But even that is is a difficult task. I think, for for a lateral to be completely fully sort of operational. There are exceptions, of course, but I think it's got, you got to be looking at this as a three year point for that person to be fully operating. My

Unknown:

experience is absolutely unless that person's coming in, sorry for jumping, unless that person is coming in, sort of pre wired with, with, maybe, you know, a lot of a lot of different ways to bring in business. And some are, you know, it's just how they are. It's, it's got to be a three year commitment, but, but it, you know, by year two you're going, you're going to know if they're getting some some traction. And that's, I think, what you have to see in year two, at least from my perspective, year two is critical in so far as you know, is this person meshing with firm culture? Are they getting out there with their with their partners? Are they adding value to client conversations? You know, if that's if that's happening and it's consistent, and the partners are partners are seeking out this person to bring with them. That the next step is going to be, you know, that person bringing in their own business. But that will come if they're, if they're able to to manage themselves within the firm.

Steve:

Yeah. And even in year one, the firm should have, should have some signals as to whether this is going to work. You know, is that person going out and meeting people? Are they involved in client pitches? Are they writing? Are they participating in firm events or blogs or anything else? All of that should be pretty much figured out the first year. Now, I will also say, though there's a responsibility at the firm to really involve them, and that's not easy, because, you know, firms are are not great at getting these people integrated, because partner, you know, the partners that they're dependent on, are often, they're out, you know, traveling, or they're working on client matters, and, you know, helping a new lawyer, you know, integrating the firm, it's not their top priority. First. Have to really make it a higher priority.

Unknown:

And I'll offer this to any of the candidates that are that are listening out there and thinking that they want to move in this direction. You know, as as a long time marketing and business development professional. I've got 20 years under my belt that was working as a CMO at AMLO, 100 firms for the last 13 years. If you are a candidate coming in and you don't have a book like a like a like a government candidate, make sure you make a beeline. Into that marketing and business development team and start to see what they can do to help you build out you're, you're, you'll have a little bit of notoriety in a positive sense when you when you first come in, and there may be some really great opportunities to promote you. Also, I think you know to the extent it's possible to do this, and I have done it, ask to meet the people who are running the marketing and BD function within the practice that you're going to be in, and make sure they understand who you are and what you're all about, why you've been brought into the firm. Because a lot of times, you know, we wind up with a with a lateral coming in and, you know, it's, it's, you know, the first time we meet them, first time we talk to them, is, is the second day they're on the job. And it doesn't have to be that way. It shouldn't be that way,

Steve:

right? I agree that lateral should be investigating the each firm they're talking to, what their approach is for marketing, BD, and part of that is meeting, you know, at the top people involved, to get the perspective of how they would actually help them develop, develop their business.

Unknown:

Well, Steve, the clock on the wall says we're, we're just about at time. And we've been talking about some pretty heavy subjects here. We're talking about careers, we're talking about about money, we're talking about big old law firms and government practice. And it's, it's a lot of big decisions, and, and, and there, none of them are light decisions. So maybe you can take us out with something a little bit lighter. Something I know about Steve that a lot of people may not know or may not be common knowledge, is that Steve in his his Steve side hustle is as a stand up comedian. And so Steve, maybe you can, you can, you can close us out with a humorous anecdote or even a joke. I like jokes.

Steve:

Okay, yeah, no, we've learned a lot in the in the business of recruiting. And this isn't just for government lawyers. This is really for all, all candidates of all sorts. Is there's a secret language of candidates, and they will tell you something, which sounds really good, but if you investigated, it might mean something else. And my favorite thing that I hear from candidates, particularly those who've left a job, and you know, it's yeah, maybe not of their own volition. A lot of times they'll say, Well, it really was a mutual decision, you know, for me to leave, and I interpret that as an armed guard had to escort you out.

Unknown:

You left in, in ankle shackles, right? Exactly. So well, that's, that's, that's good to know. It's kind of, kind of a, kind of a interesting perspective, because candidates do try to spin things. And I will promise you, when you're working with somebody like Steve, who has as many years under his belt as he has, there's very little spin that's going to get spun around. Steve Nelson, well, Steve, thank you. This has been a great conversation. I look forward to more. We've got a couple more plans. So please subscribe. Stay tuned, Steve, anything you want to you want to say, before we

Steve:

I just want to, I want to say, thank you. I'm really excited to be doing this series. I think I'm hoping that we can help both the law firms and the candidates get to a better place. Absolutely.

Unknown:

All right, thanks, Steve, and we'll talk soon.